Ep. 29- Heidi's Story

Becky and Autumn sit down with Heidi to share her story. Heidi lives in Southern California and is a single mom of three kids. She works as a Special Ed instructional aide and is also a Certified Life Coach. She enjoys playing the piano, hiking, and watching Jane Austen adaptations.

Heidi was married for eighteen years. She shares how she would occasionally find pornography on her now-ex-husband’s computer. Over time, she noticed the red flags of this problematic behavior, but it wasn’t until the loss of their young daughter that her husband’s behaviors slipped into an addiction. She shares how the lying, gaslighting, and disconnection from the family progressed from that point on.

Through these hardships, Heidi describes her feelings of isolation.

I thought I was supposed to counsel with my husband and be a support to him. I didn’t think I was supposed to talk to anyone about it.

She shares that her relationship with God was on and off. “I never lost the idea that He has a plan for me and wants me to be happy,” Heidi says. But she didn’t want people looking down on them or becoming involved in their business, so she kept it all to herself.

When things worsened over time, Heidi explains that she realized she had to reach out for help. She shares how it was through the people placed in her life that she began learning about boundaries and betrayal trauma.

The concept of “taking back my power” was introduced to me.

Through support groups, Heidi describes how she began learning skills like self-care and engaging in vision work. These things helped her push forward when she didn’t believe she had the emotional strength or energy. 

The darkest time for Heidi was when she began trying to live authentically and understanding her divine nature, but the emotional abuse made it difficult to progress in her life.

I realized since he wasn’t doing the work, I could build my spiritual life better on my own than with him.

Heidi made the prayerful decision to divorce. It was then that she realized she could develop self-esteem and find joy. Through lots of journaling and writing letters to God, she felt His presence in her life. She had deep impressions in her heart that He would watch over her and she would never want for anything. She discovered that He knows exactly what we need and when we need it.

During times I’ve felt lonely, I’ve been able to feel God’s hand on my shoulder.

When asked what her restoration through Christ has looked like, Heidi shares that, through Christ, she better understands the idea of forgiveness. She’s letting go of the idea that her ex could ever make full restitution to her. Instead, she’s letting God do that.

Heidi’s Recovery Resources: 

Physical, spiritual, emotional, mental, and intellectual self-care.

What Can I Do About Me? By Rhyll Croshaw

Brene Brown’s books

Dressing Your Truth by Carol Tuttle

Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend

Facing Heartbreak by Stefanie Carnes

Physical exercise

Sleep

Gratitude journaling

Therapy

Heidi’s Songs:

“So What?” by Pink

“It Might be Hope” by Mercy River

Ep. 28- The Power of Music with Megan Ronnow, Music Therapist

Becky and Autumn sit down with Megan Ronnow, a music therapist. Megan lives in Murray, Utah and is the mom of three little girls. She loves hiking, embroidery, and photography.

Megan shares how music therapy can help heal the body and mind. She describes music therapy as an allied health profession that is a clinical and evidence-based use of music interventions to accomplish individualized goals within a therapeutic relationship with a credentialed professional who has completed a music therapy program.

Megan explains that music therapy is used in Special Education, in hospitals, hospice, mental health, rehabilitation centers, and more. Music therapy is very individualized and can help us change our behaviors.

Megan describes how music therapy is helpful in easing anxiety, managing pain, and increasing mindfulness. It enhances quality of life and helps people stay in the present moment. When asked why music is so powerful, Megan explains that music facilitates an emotional release. It’s a way of communicating without speaking and can improve listening skills. It also helps resolve conflicts and increases self-respect and self- esteem.

The idea of music therapy helping people find their voice resonates with those who suffer from trauma. So often, those who experience trauma feel they can’t communicate their feelings. Writing songs or being part of a drum circle gives us a voice without having to speak. It helps vocalize the ways in which we are hurting.

Megan has found that meeting people where they are, instead of being dismissive of their feelings, is what has helped engage and heal those she works with. 

For those who are unable to have formal music therapy, Megan suggests putting together playlists that contain songs that go along with certain types of emotions we may be feeling. This has a way of supporting us where we are, instead of thinking we “shouldn’t” be experiencing the emotions we’re experiencing.

Other helpful things to do include chanting, affirmations, deep breathing, focusing on the present moment, and drumming. Music therapy looks different for everyone. 

Megan’s favorite resources:

MUSIC!

Writing your own songs

Breathing

Your favorite music

Megan’s song:

“Youth” by Daughter

Ep. 27- Ali's Story

Becky and Autumn sit down with Ali to share her story. Ali is a divorced mom who loves going to concerts, finding weird, awesome things in nature, and doing yardwork.  

Ali explains that for most of her life, she was focused on “Churchianity” instead of “Christianity.” She describes “Churchianity” as being more driven to do the checklist of everything we “should” do, versus having a personal relationship with God.

Ali shares that soon after she found porn on her husband’s computer near their ten-year anniversary, more and more issues came to light. She felt like it was a very dark time for her.

I felt like [pornography addiction] was something that happened to other people, not to me. 

Ali says her ecclesiastical leader gave her a chance to speak, believed her, listened to her, and provided a safe space for her to share.  She describes her relationship with God at this time as very troubled. She knew the only way she could survive this was to turn to God—but she was angry with Him. Her world had turned upside down.

I felt that someone had taken black paint and smeared all of my memories and all I knew.

When asked about her wrestle with God, Ali explains that she was grateful for her 12-step group. Through their support, she began shattering her formal relationship with God and not caring what it looked like, saying “If He really wants me, He’s gonna get all of me.” The angry parts, the hurt parts, everything.  And this was what started her rebirth with God.

Finding a qualified therapist was instrumental in her healing.  She learned so much. But Ali shares that the most pivotal point for her was attending “The Heart of a Woman” retreat. It was there she was able to start seeing God in a different way:  as a loving Father who has been with her this whole time. 

I started on my path to an authentic relationship to God.

Ali describes how she thought she could “save” her husband with the right resources, but it eventually became clear that he had to make that choice himself. When she realized she couldn’t control his recovery and healing, Ali embarked on her own healing journey.

I would say “my needs really matter” as an affirmation, but over time I really started to believe it.

Ali describes her eventual divorce as another time where her world was burned to ashes—she shares she was shaken to her core. However, trying to love herself and be aware of her emotions and needs, as well as using courage to reach out to an amazing network of women, have helped her continue to heal.

When asked what part God has played in her healing, Ali says: “All of it. He has been the source of healing for me…God is loving. He takes the ashes of our life and finds beauty.” 

Isaiah 61:3- To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them a beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified.

Ali’s Recovery Resources:

Qualified Therapist

12-Step Support Group

Heart of a Woman retreat

Ali’s song:

“Beautiful Heartbreak” by Hillary Weeks

Ep. 26- Anonymous Q&A #3- Surrender & Love

Becky, Autumn, and Tiffany sit down together to answer anonymous questions submitted by listeners about betrayal trauma.

Question #1:  “What is surrender?  What is the difference between surrender and just giving up?”

Autumn shares that her husband she says that she felt she had to have a lot of control for the first 18 months of their recovery and was sad and upset all the time.  She shares she had a very distinct moment in her kitchen, kneeling and telling Heavenly Father that she couldn’t live that way anything.  Autumn says that He told her that if she gave Him her husband, He would heal her life.  She had surrendered before but that was a big moment for her, realizing that she needed to rely a lot on the Lord.  Her surrendering involved her thought processes, looking at his phone, and more.  It was hourly, daily, weekly, monthly and over the last 14 years, it has gotten smaller to a couple times a year.  But she shares she still has to surrender.  And it isn’t just her husband she needs to surrender.  She says she is surrendering her kids, her feelings, situations. Giving up is just “I am done” and walk away, where surrenderer is giving it over to God.  

“I am giving you control and letting you handle this.”

Tiffany says she received a lot of concern from family members as she was working to surrender.  Surrender is not about being “ok with things” but it is about surrendering things to God so that you can take the right steps.  “When I handle it on my own, I am not doing it right.  Once I surrender, I can take my part and the steps that will make a difference for myself and loved ones”.  She shares an experience when she was crying for hours and hours.  She finally cried out and said, “I cannot do this anymore” and says she experienced an immediate lightening of the burden being lifted.  She shares that she knew the Savior was there.  Tiffany says that the peace that floods her life, body, and her spirit when she surrenders is unmistakable.  

Becky says that surrender is something that she had to learn with time. She had to find healing in her relationship with God because she believes “Surrender is an act of faith”.  She feels that surrender is saying I trust that you (Lord) will hold this, that I trust that you know what’s best for me, what’s best for the other person.  She says she didn’t trust God to know what was best for her, her family, and her husband for a long time. Becky shares that she thought she was surrendering by just saying “Well there is nothing I can do so here we go….”. But the Lord saved the relationship and the Lord mended that relationship.

When I was able to connect surrender to faith, that’s where it started clicking for me.

With betrayal trauma, Becky shares that so much was out of her control; her relationship, even her own body.  Then suddenly she found she did have control over things and she found she had some security, even if it was not necessarily safety and peace.  Becky reminds us that it important to make sure you have physical, emotional, and mental safety.  She believes that before she could get to that surrender phase, she needed to go through a strong control phase and it felt really scary to let go of that.

Tiffany asks that after having been to a surrender place, looking back , how does that control place feel?  Autumn shares that surrender is regulation for her- a regulated response, a regulated feeling.  Peace.  

Question #2: “I don’t know if I love him anymore.  He is working hard but I don’t feel love.  What do I do?”

Tiffany says that this is an excellent place for surrender and for self-acceptance and sitting with things for a while.  It’s understandable and it’s a valid feeling.  She shares she seeks the peace to know what to do.  Tiffany also says that Time is very important.  She says to give yourself time to really process those feelings.  Everything is shifting, everything has changed, she says.  She also reminds us that this doesn’t mean you have to make any decisions right away.  

Take time to honor and figure out how you feel and decide what the right way to move forward is.

Autumn shares a personal experience with this that her husband shared that he fell out of love with her.  She says that hearing that as a spouse is very heartbreaking and heart wrenching. She shares that his prayers changed, and he asked, “Lord show me the ways that I love my spouse again.  Show me how I love her.”  Autumn says was REEAALLLY mad!  So, then her therapist asked her what ways she could show love.  For a year she sent him a message every day that said three things that she loved about him.  Autumn believes that two people going in a congruent direction, trying to find the Lord and reconciliation, that there is going to come a time when they will probably join again.  She shares she does have friends who are divorced and that doesn’t mean they didn’t try to work things out.

Becky shares she has learned different definitions of love.  There is romantic love with two brand new people in a relationship.  But, she says, there is a deeper love that comes from sharing a life, from sharing hardships, from sharing that journey.  It’s different.  And it’s even more precious.  Becky says that she is not one who says that for sure you will fall back in love, but it takes work. In this moment, because there is so much hurt, don’t make a decision.  If it is safe to stay and work, I would encourage people to work.

Tiffany notes that in the question, the listener said her loved one is working and she believes that if there is hard work happening, change will come.  And you are the only one who can know what that looks like for you and where that will take you.  She reminds us all that this is going to take time.  Many therapists say that it is good to give it a year before making big decisions and usually some more time.  Tiffany shares that we both need to be doing our work and that both people need to be on that congruent path in the hopes that you will come back together.  

That brokenness is going to take some healing.

It’s valid and understandable that you don’t feel “in love”.  Or any love at times.  But change can happen.  Especially if there is hard work.

#3- Becky, Tiffany, and Autumn then finish out the podcast by sharing their personal thoughts on Love.

Tiffany starts by sharing her thoughts, as someone who has been divorced for 3 years, she shares that this is a really hard topic for her.  It is a work in progress for her.  She shares that 

Love is when I am acting authentically and caring about someone else

She continues that she feels if she is doing something that she feels is best, then she is acting in love.  If she is acting according to her inspiration, then she feels she is acting in love.  Tiffany shares that her divorce was the most gut-wrenching, horrible process of her whole life.  “I divorced my husband, and I did that in love.  It was the last thing I could do for him.  I knew he needed it. I knew I needed it.  And so out of 100% love, I divorced him”.  Becky expressed that it sounded so strange, but it makes sense. Tiffany said she had to know she had done everything could possibly do, left no stone unturned and knew God wanted it.  And now, she is not in love with him, but she does love him and wants the very best for him.  She also shares she doesn’t know what the ‘in love” part looks like anymore.  “But I know love and I am grateful to have felt that kind of love, too.”

Becky shares that love Tiffany was talking about is so close to what God’s love is for us it.  He always wants the best for us.  Becky reminds us that doesn’t mean we don’t have boundaries and we don’t take care of ourselves.  But, does that mean I can love the imperfectness of other people?  I can.

My perspective has shifted to looking at everyone through the Lord’s eyes, because His eyes are always the eyes of love.

Becky shares that she has also been working to try and translate this into loving herself a little more and a little better, because she can be really hard on herself.  She says that when she keeps in mind how much the Lord loves her; He would never want me to be hard on myself.  

The Lord would never want me to beat myself up for mistakes I have made.

Autumn shares that when we go to a human being for our validation and love, at some point that human being is going to fail, because they are human.  Including ourselves.  So, practicing going to God for his validation and love is so important because His love is perfect.  She says she feel like once you have his validation and can see others thorough his eyes, then you can reciprocate that love.  

Autumns also shares that for romantic love she likes to have a weekly date with her husband, a time where you can just converse with each other and not just about your kids.  She also says taking time to look into each other’s eyes and doing the “Sway Every Day”- take a dance every day (when you can).  Autumns says that there are things you can do to feel connected and be in love, including sexual intimacy in a health way.

Becky shares that love is individual and extremely personal.  When she talks about loving her children, it is for all different aspects of each one.  When it comes to loving her husband, it is extremely individual and personal.  Based on his needs and based on her needs.  Based on their interactions.  One example of a small act of love sitting together one evening a week and just learning more about about each other.  Becky also says that time can equal a lot of love because we are all really busy.  With her kids, when she takes the time to be with them, it makes a big difference.  It can be short periods of time when you are alone in the car with them.  It’s not about grilling them and questioning them.  It’s about spending the time together.

Autumn loved a quote she recently found-

Let God have you and let God love you!

Tiffany shares that allowing love can feel so hard and Autumn shares that feeling unlovable was one of her core shames for a long time.  Becky says when she had started finding some healing and the thought of allowing my husband to love her again was very scary.  She says it was so scary to open her heart, even just a little bit.  

Tiffany invites viewers to practice allowing and receiving love and Autumns acknowledges that it takes a lot of vulnerability and surrender to do that!

Thank you for all your questions and comments! We know by asking and answering them, many others will be helping in their healing journey.

Please continue to send in your anonymous questions through Facebook, Instagram, the website, or email them to Becky@riseuprestored.com

Song chosen by Tiffany:

“Live Like You’re Loved” by Hawk Nelson

The song is a reminder of God’s love for us and to remind us to practice living that way.  The message of the song is so powerful.  You are loved, you are deserving of love, you are worthy of love, so Live Like You’re Loved.

Specific Recovery Resources: 

God’s Love

Seeing others through God’s eyes

Boundaries

Self-compassion

Personal healing work

Ep. 25- Karen's Story

Becky and Tiffany sit down with Karen to share her story. Karen is a co-founder of the Healing Through Christ 12-Step program.  She is a mom of five children, has sixteen grandchildren and another one on the way.

Karen shares that she had been married for two years when she began feeling disconnected from her husband. She knew something was off. She prayed a lot to know what the problem was and it became more and more evident there was something really wrong.

However, Karen says she didn’t find out the truth about her husband’s sexual acting out until they had been married for twenty-five years. After her husband’s disclosure, Karen talks about how she felt so betrayed.  She shares:

I had no idea what my life was.

Karen says she questioned why the Lord did not let her know what was going on sooner.  She felt a strong answer that there was no help available at that time and that He was aware of her and had a plan for them.  During those long years in the dark, Karen explains that she had developed unhealthy behaviors to cope with her husband’s out-of-control behaviors. She felt the need to control what was happening. 

Becky reminds us that there is a lot of pain around our loved ones’ acting out behaviors… “but when we can pull back and recognize that this (person) is a choice son of God who is struggling, we can give him compassion. Sometimes that compassion means stepping away from the relationship, and for some people, the relationship can continue.”

Karen shares that she felt overwhelmed as she learned more about her husband’s actions. “My mindset was it was my job to heal everything,” Karen says. However, the Lord whispered to her: This is not your job. I will take care of your husband. You don’t need to heal his addiction.

Feeling a sense of relief that she could try to surrender this, Karen shares that she began attending 12 Step meetings. After about a year, she got to Step 4, which asks us to take a searching moral inventory. She felt she was being self-righteous for feeling this way, but she couldn’t think of anything she’d done wrong.  Becky shares that she has learned that Step 4 is really about finding where we really need healing and taking it to the Lord.  Tiffany shares that she recognizes that doing her more recent Step 4, she knows that there is another piece she is going to need to surrender and that feels scary.

Karen says that it took going through a long, arduous illness before she began truly surrendering to God and to His will, which was a huge thing for someone who, as she describes, wanted to control everything. After meeting with many doctors and no answers, Karen shares she fully surrendered to the Lord.  The Lord stepped in and brought the right doctor and right information into her life.  When she began healing from her illness, she finally understood what to include in her fourth step moral inventory. She recognized where she was truly broken and where she needed healing. 

It was going through the fourth step when I felt an intense love from the Lord.

Karen shares that feeling this desire to no longer dictate to the Lord what His will should be that truly helped Karen heal from her betrayal trauma. She shares: “Since then I’ve come to see a challenge in front of me and instead of telling the Lord what I need to have happen, I can say, ‘Wow. I didn’t know this was going to happen. I don’t know what to do about it but I know you knew it was going to happen and I know you know what I need to learn from this or what I can learn from this and you know how to get me through it. So please help me to learn what I need and please guide me in this next step. Please show me the way.’”

Karen explains that she feels addiction is a rollercoaster and she didn’t always know if her marriage would survive. But finally, her husband made the efforts that he needed to put his addiction behind him. When asked what helps her when she feels stuck, Karen explains that she falls to her knees in prayer. 

I’m shedding this mortal ‘gunk’ through Christ. Christ is the basis of my recovery.

Karen’s Recovery Resources:

Healing Through Christ 12-Step program   http://www.healingthroughchrist.org

Prayer

Surrender

Trust in the Lord

Christ- the One Who is Healing my heart

Karen’s Song:

“Beautiful” by Mercy Me

Ep. 24- Anarie's Story

Becky and Tiffany sit down with Anarie to share her story. Anarie shares that she is currently in a Master’s program in school, majoring in Social Work. She has two children, raises goats, and is an accomplished pianist, who loves yoga.

Anarie shares that growing up, she cared a lot about her relationship with God. She placed a lot of pressure on herself to always be better, pushing herself to unreasonable levels. She knew God was important to her, but she wasn’t sure she was important to God. She shares she felt He didn’t need her, but only tolerated her.

To connect with God, I was taking my shiny, Sunday self to Him. Not my messy self.

Anarie says that she took this approach with her into her twelve-year marriage. Religion was a big part of their marriage, but spirituality was something she felt like she was doing on her own. When she discovered early on that her husband struggled with pornography, she took on damaging beliefs about herself, and felt a lot of shame.

I believed the cultural message of it being the wife’s responsibility to prevent him from consuming porn.

Anarie shares that these negative beliefs caused her to believe she couldn’t tell anyone about her husband’s problems. She says she felt lonely, unhappy, and isolated. Over the years, Anarie’s husband lied about his porn use, and their sex life suffered. She shares she wanted so much to believe what he was telling her was true that she denied what her body and mind were telling her. She says she had to override her gut feelings to stay with him.

When the truth of his sex addiction finally came to light, Anarie discusses how she and her husband entered intensive therapy that was crucial to their individual healing.  “But there were other things in our relationship that were going on besides pornography addiction that weren’t addressed that we weren’t able to work through,” Anarie says. “Ultimately our best choice was to divorce.”

Anarie shares that knowing she needed to end her marriage was difficult to accept. “I was really, really angry with God… I was upset that He hadn’t revealed more to me that might have spared me this pain.”

However, with the help of individual therapy, group therapy, and SALifeline, Anarie started to claim her own thoughts and feelings without shame.  She also talks about how she utilized boundaries. Through a lot of work, Anarie shares that she learned that God could handle her anger. “I could scream and rage, but God was still there. He understood why I was angry…He validated it and didn’t correct me. I was amazed that my relationship with God could hold all that space.”

I’m a person in process, and that’s exactly who I should be. I’m important to God and am known as an individual. He has turned my ashes to beauty.

Anarie’s Recovery Resources:

Brene Brown’s work, especially her book Rising Strong

Self-compassion by Kristin Neff

Jennifer Finlayson Fife’s work

Kristin Hodson’s work

Heart of a Woman retreat

Yoga with Adriene YouTube channel

Relationships with other women in recovery

Anarie’s Song:

“Stand by You” by Rachel Platten

Ep. 23- New Year's Toolkit

As the year 2020 draws to a close, Becky, Tiffany, and Autumn gather virtually to share and discuss their New Year’s Toolkits.  They also talk about what helps them the most moving forward into a new year, not just about getting away from the previous year (*cough* 2020 *cough*).

~Tiffany~

Tiffany starts the podcast sharing her yearly act of reflecting on and expressing gratitude for the last year.  She starts by listing this of note, things that mattered to her over the last year (world, family, personal, and relationship things).  Things that were influential to her over the last year.  She then journals about the year, fully processing her feelings about the year.  Tiffany says she expresses gratitude for the year, “names” the year ( year of growth, year of change, etc…), and then says goodbye to the previous year.  She shares that she begins all of this with a prayer or meditation to get everything out.

Sometimes we don’t let go of things.  This is a way to let it go.

Looking to the next year, Tiffany then list of things she knows will happen and are expect to happen in the next year (graduations, missions, etc…).  She like to also add things that she wants to happen and things she would like to do.  Tiffany says she considers herself an optimist combined with a realist.  She then journals about her fears and hopes about the year.  

Then to end it, she says “Welcome 2021”.  Tiffany shares that she also does this on a small scale each month.  She feels this practice can help with all the negative energy and keeps a more positive focus.  This practice is about looking forward to the next chapter.  Like closing files in your brain and lets your brain rest.

Tiffany also shares that she likes to pick a word for the upcoming year for herself and her family.  She says that there were years she couldn’t do it, but she has been able to do it recently.  She doesn’t over focus on the word and if it feels too hard, that she doesn’t do it.  You can do this with the whole family and work together.

~Autumn~

Autumn shares that they come together as a family and fill out individual forms about a year-in-review.  When her kids were younger, they drew pictures.  Things included on these forms are name, age, favorite things from 2020, favorite food, book, color, activity, and favorite memory.  Autumn shares that they also include a section about the greatest lesson learned from the year, the hardest and easiest thing from the year.  Then they list what they are looking forward to for the next year, including- what do you want to learn, get better at, wishes for the year, and they set ONE goal.  Autumn shares that in her personal experience in the past, she had 20 goals and couldn’t accomplish that.  It was too much.  

Autumn then shares that she looks and finds a personal positive word for the upcoming year. It may be a word that she needs help with or to look forward to.  She likes to look up the meaning, pray about it, find quotes on it, and affirmations on it.  She says she puts the word on the wall in her office so she can see it when she works and also puts it in her bathroom to reflect on daily.  Autumn says she also tries to pick 3 things each day to focus on with her yearly word.  

Autumn is also a big supporter of checking-in with ourselves.  She does a weekly check-in with physically, emotionally, sexually, spiritually, and her self-care.  She shares that she also does a yearly check-in with those areas.  

Over all this year, what have I done in those areas to build myself?

Finally, Autumn says she deep cleans ONE area.  One space that she occupies- a medicine closet, closet, her shoes, etc… She says she like to have one thing to focus on deep cleaning and reorganizing.  

“It pushes me into a better mindset.”

~Becky~

Becky shares that her family started a family word or phrase last year and laughed as she shared tthat their phrase for 2020 was “Into the Unknown”.

New Year’s is a time of change, to look back to reflect and to look forward.  Becky says that with betrayal trauma, New Year’s can feel like it’s a really hard time.  She shares that sometimes she would look back and think “How am I still in this place?”, “How does it still look like this?”.  Or she would try to look forward and struggle to find hope.

Becky shares that it’s important to talk about our feelings this time of year and not just focus about “change and do more and be more and say more”.  She says, “I don’t want us all to get caught up in that”.

If this year has been really hard for you and you look and reflect and recognize that there is not as much good as you want-

Be kind to yourself.

If you are still in a relationship that isn’t where you want to be, be kind to yourself.  Be gentle with yourself. Self-compassion is one of the greatest things we can do to take care of ourselves and the people around us.

Be gentle with yourself.

Becky shares that if you look back and recognize that this last year was not what you were hoping it would be, and you see that it may have been a year of resting, its ok. It’s ok to have a year of resting.  If this was a year of germination for you, be gentle about it.

Instead of goals, Becky says, she sets intentions.  “What do I want different, better in my life?  What can I focus on?”  She tries to give herself space to remember and be more gentle with herself.…   She shares that with goals, she would beat herself up for not accomplishing things.  Instead, with intentions for the year, Becky was able to give herself more space to grow.

Becky says to not be be afraid to start a new tradition or new things in your life.  If something is not working, it’s ok to try something different this year.  She shares that 

We, by nature, grow.  We are built to grow.

She reminds us that doing something new doesn’t have to be big.  Start small and as you look back over your year, you will see growth.

And finally, we all want to encourage everyone to reach out more.  Always reach out more. Almost every single podcast we talk about reaching out.  

We encourage you to reach out a little bit more in the new year.

It has been a great first year and you are in our prayers!  

Please reach out with comments and questions.  We would love to help provide more support and resources in the upcoming year.

Becky closes with this: I want to thank my cohosts who are all amazing beyond compare.  And with a shoutout to Richard, my husband- who is our tech guy and we couldn’t do it without him.

New Year’s Song:

Rise Up (Lazarus) by Cain

Ep. 22- Meditation and Betrayal Trauma, Ryan Raleigh, LCHMC

Becky and Autumn sit down with Ryan Raleigh, Licensed Clinical Mental Health Counselor with LifeStar Salt Lake and Redwood Therapy. Ryan has been married for twenty years and has eight kids. On this podcast, he shares his personal and professional journey and insights about meditation and provides a guided meditation during the podcast.

Ryan shares that he experienced betrayal trauma both as a child and in his first marriage. He identifies with and remembers the agonies of betrayal trauma, such as the hard-to-manage invasive thoughts, feeling crazy, and feeling like a private detective.

Ryan says began integrating meditation into his personal life and his counseling practice several years ago. He describes meditation as

the process of “looking inward” on your body sensations, thoughts,

images floating by and what is happening all around you.

Ryan asserts that you can do meditation anywhere you want; it doesn’t even have to be quiet around you. He explains that when you meditate and your mind wanders, be really gentle bringing the focus back. 

Like bringing a bubble over with a feather.

Ryan says there are no “have tos” in meditation, and that even a one-minute meditation is okay. He explains, however, that meditating for at least three to five minutes is enough to change you.  Ryan shares he began his meditation journey with guided meditation and there are many other types of meditation including transcendental, yoga (moving meditation), and mantra (a repeated affirmation over and over).

Ryan is particularly interested in how meditation can heal trauma. “Trauma scars the brain,” he says. “It creates ruts and neuropathways—it hurts the brain in ways we’re still trying to understand.” Betrayal trauma is particularly harmful because “the person you want to talk to is also the enemy,” he says.

Ryan reminds us that trauma is stored in our bodies, not just our brains. Because of this, we often feel like our body is betraying us and letting us down. However, Ryan shares that our bodies are actually trying to protect us, and he invites us to:

 Love that protection instead of shaming that protection.

Meditation can help the rumination, invasive thoughts, and triggers associated with betrayal trauma. Ryan describes that, “So often we’re acting in a reactionary mode. But just the understanding that we’re being triggered helps us to slow down.”

Ryan says that during a trauma response, blood is going to the center of our brain and it doesn’t have access to the prefrontal cortex. But when you can recognize that trigger, we re-route the pathways to our brain to allow more blood to the prefrontal cortex.

Kindness to ourselves, Ryan shares, is of paramount importance. “If we were to shame our reaction and our trigger, we stick ourselves in place. But if we are to be kind, we can move through that.”

If we are kind to ourselves, then we can grow.

Ryan reminds us that, while meditating, we’re not going to use judgement, but we’re just going to notice.

Becky shares that one of the things she loves about meditation is you can always make it your own. Ryan explains further that he started, years ago, with guided meditations, but now does self-guided meditations. These self-guided meditations often involve utilizing his authentic, higher self to help heal.

When asked about what restoration means to him, Ryan responds: “All my mistakes will be accounted for my gain. All those struggles and trials will serve to strengthen me. The parts of me that I hate the most, I have to learn to love those. God can help us love those. The atonement was accomplished by equal measures of love with equal measures of pain”.  He shares that 

Restoration was always meant to happen.

Becky reminds us that, “the pain is an essential part of this process, of this life.”

Autumn shares that she feels like this pain is generational because we take on our ancestors’ DNA, their problems and what they left behind, and we are healing that. For her, restoration involves “repairing what has been broken before and giving love and light ahead.”  

Ryan encourages the practice of meditation by inviting us to “Take something that you’re struggling with and allow your mind to focus on it. When your mind wanders and you bring it back, that’s one push up. When our mind wanders and you bring it back again, that’s two push ups. And so on.” 

With meditation, the “right” way is the way that works for you. Honesty is essential to this process. 

“When we hide,” he says, “we can’t be healed. That’s freedom—to let ourselves be seen.”

Ryan’s favorite resources:

Honesty

Self-Kindness

In meditation, let your mind wander and practice bringing it back

Meditation app that works for you (“Calm”, “Breathe”, other free apps available)

Music- pay attention to notes and your body

Practice!!!

Ryan’s Song: 

“If We’re Honest” by Francesca Battistelli

Ep. 21- Holiday Q&A

Becky, Autumn, and Tiffany gather together virtually to answer anonymous questions about dealing with betrayal trauma around the holidays. 

Question #1:  What are common holiday triggers and how can I navigate them?

Tiffany shares that seeing happy families can be triggering. “It’s so hard to see other people who look so happy in their marriage and their family,” she says. 

For Autumn, the whole season of fall is triggering because that’s when she found out about her husband’s addiction.

Becky shares how during the holidays, she would look around and see really happy people, and then she’d go home and there would be fighting, pain, and sadness. 

Autumn used to feel resentment around the idea of gifts, because no gift her husband could give her would ever be big enough to compensate for the pain of his betrayal.  It was also hard to give gifts to her husband for a while; for a time, she stopped giving sentimental gifts.

Tiffany shares how the holidays brought up more feelings of being isolated because she felt more removed and that she was hiding more. Vacations were exponentially more stressful during the holidays.

Becky agrees, stressing that: 

“One of Satan’s biggest tools is isolation and he really pushes that idea during the holidays.”

Autumn explains how the opposite of isolation is reaching out. Because she had a helpful support person, and because over time she felt more safe with her husband, those holiday triggers began dissipating. She worked really hard to find the good things in other areas of her life, like her kids, or starting a different tradition. 

Another way to deal with the holidays is to temporarily shelf the situation.

Tiffany shares how her therapist told her it’s okay to shelf the situation for a time, to go and participate and have fun. “That doesn’t mean everything is super happy and good,” she says. “What it means is, I don’t have expectations of working through things, or solving things. I have an expectation to try to enjoy myself, to try to be involved and show up the best I can. I don’t expect to address the problem or make big decisions during this time.” 

One thing that has helped Becky during the holidays has been connecting with safe people. “I also attended a couple of extra 12-step meetings during the week of Christmas week, just to get a little extra strength in me,” she says.

Autumn adds that we can skip these holiday events, if need be.  

“If it’s triggering and you can’t participate, and it doesn’t create safety for you, you can skip it,” Autumn says.

Becky also reminds us that it’s okay to simplify the holidays down to only the things that truly bring us joy.  

Question #2: How do I provide good holidays for my kids when betrayal trauma has happened?

Becky explains that:

Our kids know when something’s wrong, even if they don’t know the details.

“Sometimes we can put on a happy face when we’re not 100 percent there. But I’m not one to lie to my kids,” she says. “I tell them, Dad and I are having a hard time right now. We’re okay, but there are some hard things going on right now. But please know we love you fiercely and nothing’s going to change that.”

Autumn shares that when her kids were little, they weren’t as queued in on what was happening, 

When they’re young, trying to normalize things as much as possible means keeping the traditions that are important to them.

Becky assures that normalizing for our kids in many situations is okay. If there’s heavy abuse in the home though, it’s time to get to safety. “But if you’re working with your loved one and things are hard, it’s okay to try to provide some stability for your kids,” she says. 

Tiffany stresses the importance of honesty. 

Saying, “My heart is sad and I just need a minute,” can mean you’re being honest with your children without giving them difficult things they couldn’t carry. 

Tiffany also shares how helpful it is to engage other people in this cause. For instance, going to a family member’s home to enjoy some of the traditions sometimes helps the energy change enough so that we can provide meaningful experiences without having to shoulder the burden alone.

The bottom line is: you can still maintain the traditions that are really important to you.

Question #3: How do we navigate family events when we’re not on good terms with our loved ones during the holidays?

Tiffany admits that sometimes we do it horribly and that’s okay! There will be another event where we can do it a little better. Sometimes her main goal in holiday social situations is to just breathe.  She reminds us that it’s okay to not be the life of the party sometimes.

Autumn shares that for a period of time, her husband was uninvited to one side of family events. That was a boundary that her mom had set. So, her husband went to other things with his side of the family. Autumn set a boundary with family, where she asked them not to talk badly about her husband when the kids were around.

Tiffany found it helpful to set a time limit for the event and share that with the kids. If she knew she had the emotional bandwidth to only stay an hour, she would prepare the kids beforehand for that.

Becky says that, “I’m one to not go to things if I know it’s going to be too hard for me. I recognize there are going to be people who don’t understand and who don’t agree, but if my emotional energy is gone, I just don’t attend things.” 

But how do you navigate it when people start to pry?

Autumn explains that a lot of people step away from functions in general when suffering from betrayal trauma. “I was a very social person and I turned into a very reclusive person. I’m just now starting to turn into a social person again out of my family setting.”  

When people have experienced betrayal trauma, it’s a totally normal reaction to want to step away from social events.

Autumn shares some good ways to respond to questions you don’t want to answer:  “I’ve stopped saying yes to things that I don’t feel comfortable with.” Or, “They just won’t be here this time, but hopefully they can come next time.” 

Tiffany has discovered that isolating works really well to avoid people who are prying. But when we can’t isolate, in order to avoid oversharing or overcommitting, she would respond with, “I’m going to have to get back to you on that.” Or, “I don’t know, let me check my calendar.” Responding in that way gave her space to think things through and answer in a way that made her comfortable.

You don’t owe anyone anything.

Becky shares that “Culturally, we’re taught to always say yes, but giving yourself just a little bit of space to say ‘I’ll get back to you on that,’ then you can come at it from a place where you’re not so triggered.”

Autumn asserts that “The space is the grace.”

Tiffany explains how she has learned to say no. “Every time I say no to something that didn’t feel right to me, that’s the best case for both of us,” she says. “If it’s not right for me, I believe with every fiber of my being, that it’s not right for them.”

Becky believes that we need to give ourselves permission to take the space that we need and the time that we need. “All of these holidays that we navigate, there’s a lot of pressure. We need to give ourselves space and grace to step away as needed. Attend when we can and when we recognize when it’s great for our kids, but utilize self-care.”

Lastly, Autumn shares how she has learned over the years to simplify greatly, as well as to say no when it’s appropriate and to say yes when it’s appropriate. 

Tiffany reminds us to continue personal care rituals and routines (daily meditation, scripture study, exercising, etc.) during the holidays. “Be even more intentional and keep doing it,” she adds.

Finally, Becky shares how she hopes everyone has the holiday season that they need!

Holiday Song: 

“Behold” by Plumb

Please continue to send in your anonymous questions through Facebook, Instagram, the website, or email them to Becky@riseuprestored.com.

Ep. 20- Becky's Story Revisited

Co-host Tiffany and special guest co-host, Beckie Hennessy, sit down with Becky, host of the Rise up Restored podcast, to revisit her story that she shared in the first episode. 

Becky loves traveling and road trips, reading, art, movies, and LOVES music.  She is almost finished with her Master’s degree in Clinical Mental Health Counseling and feels so very called by God in her work as a counselor.  Becky has been married for 20 years and is the mother of three teenage warrior daughters. 

Becky says she grew up in a very religious home where she tried hard to check all the boxes and please her parents but did not feel she had a strong relationship with God.

She shares that she met her husband in Driver’s Ed in high school. After a year of dating, he trusted her enough to tell her that he struggled with pornography. Even though she knew about this problem, she didn’t understand at the time how much it would eventually affect their lives. They continued to date and, after he served a mission for their church, they got engaged and married 7 weeks later.  

We were told by clergy to just get married and the porn problem will be resolved.

But it did not resolve.  Becky says things only got worse. Soon, her husband would take the car and be gone all day, acting out. She shares that she had no idea where he was or what he was doing.

It was almost like I was more lonely after marriage than before.

Becky shares that even though her husband was always honest with her about what he had been doing, she felt helpless, hopeless, and very alone. They would go to clergy to ask for support, but she says the advice to “just be nicer to him,” “smile more,” “put on more makeup,” and “have more sex” made things worse for Becky.

Becky says that because her foundation with God was more cultural and not internally very strong, she became angry and hopeless in her relationship with God and stopped attending her church. 

We spent a few years away from our faith because of the pain we were experiencing.

Becky explains that, “I’d been taught that you do everything you’re supposed to, you check those boxes, you put that medallion on, and then, boom, you’re good. If you do THIS, then you get THIS, no matter what.”

As much as she fiercely loved her husband, he was hurting her. “The two things in my mind weren’t making sense,” Becky says.  So, in order to stay as sane as she could, she says she had to set the spiritual stuff aside. 

My relationship with the Lord at that time was just an outcry. My prayers were a puddle of crying on the floor.

Becky shares that looking back, she can see that the Lord was there the whole time; but in the midst of that pain, she felt lost.  Becky explains that she had learned some false beliefs about needing to hustle for her worth. She had been taught growing up that “what you do equals how much you’re worth.”  Becky says, “So, if I was ‘BLANK enough,’ then he wouldn’t do this.  If I was kind enough, if I cooked enough, if I dressed this way, or if my hair looked this way, if I did the dishes enough, he would stop.”

Not one time did her husband tell her she wasn’t enough. But she heard that every time he acted out. It wasn’t about her, but she heard it was about her every single time.

Becky shares that she became severely depressed.  She says that one of her numbing behaviors to dull the pain was eating. The emotional eating spiraled out of control, and she shares she became morbidly obese. 

Becky says that when they moved to the Midwest about ten years into their marriage, they finally found a good therapist. For the first time, the therapist had enough training to know how to begin working with her husband and even (finally) do some work with her, as the betrayed spouse. 

When they moved back to Utah, Becky and her husband found a place that had even more specialized training. They told her husband: “We recognize it’s really hard for you to stop, so we want to give you tools to get through it.” This was the first time her husband’s behaviors were seen as an addiction.

Becky shares that another tool that was instrumental in her healing was the 12-step group SALifeline.  “There is something about sitting in a room with people who can understand,” she says.

The nature of this beast of betrayal trauma is isolating. That’s how Satan attacks the spouse: isolation.

It was in these 12-step meetings that Becky was pointed toward God. Becky explains that, “Before, God was this dude in the sky with a white beard and a robe.” But suddenly, she found herself asking Him:  “Who are You really? And who am I?”.   The shift was a slow process for her. She learned about who her Heavenly Parents are and that taught her who she really is.

I am enough and my husband’s actions aren’t a measurement of that.

Another healing resource for Becky was the Heart of a Woman Retreat.  She shares that it was a safe place where she started really digging into the pain and the hard and the trust issues with God.  She deeply explored the hard and painful questions that she had been avoiding for many years.

“What? God loves me? And He’s always there?”

During this time, and through working with therapists, Becky shares that she learned she didn’t have to use food as a protection anymore. “That year of ‘Breaking’ was ‘brutiful,’” she says, “but it started me on this journey.”  She has learned that this journey consists of “an unfolding” and is not about doing more. 

Becky shares that her best tool for healing is connecting with God.

God is the ultimate healer.

Becky says, “I asked the Lord, ‘What is it you want from me?’  I thought it was going to be a checklist, like praying more”.  But when she heard that whisper of “Let go” from the Lord, it was too scary at first. She shares that it took her time, healing, and trust in the Lord before she could give Him control.

The Lord said: “Put the control in my hand, I will take care of you. I’ve had it the whole time, but I’ll take it even more.” 

Becky shares how this leap of faith has helped her to learn to trust her Heavenly family. “We can rise up fully restored and I know with the Lord, we can all do it,” she says. “A lot of times we want to restore it to just what it looked like. But we can be restored to more. I believe that’s what the Lord wants for us.”

In the end, Becky reminds us that we were meant to be brave!

Becky’s Recovery Resources: 

Her Heavenly Family

Meditation 

Music

Specialized Therapy 

Supportive friends 

Heart of a Woman Retreat

“Not Today” by Hillsong United

Beckie Hennessy’s podcast: Living Through with Beckie Hennessy

Becky’s Song: 

“Brave” by Skillet

Ep. 19- Kristi's Story

Becky and Tiffany sit down with Kristi to share her story. Kristi, a mother of three, works as an accountant. However, to feed her creative brain, she loves to go to yard sales and artistically refinish old furniture.

Kristi grew up in a small town in Utah. Her parents didn’t actively attend a church, but she remembers feeling, after going to Primary, that she wanted an eternal family. She loved the spirit in her grandparents’ home. As a teen, she became involved in Young Women’s, Girls Camp, and Seminary, where her leaders influenced her for good.

Kristi shares that she grew up six houses away from the man she would later marry. While he was on his mission, Kristi went away to college. However, during her college experience, she was sexually assaulted by someone from her church. “I felt like the Lord had turned His back on me,” she says.

I must not have been living right to not have the Spirit tell me the assault would happen.

Afraid and heartbroken, Kristi didn’t tell anyone. She tried to go back to normal college life but eventually could not continue and left college.  When her boyfriend came home from his mission, they got engaged the next night, and they were married four months later.

 “I didn’t say anything (about the assault) because I felt broken,” Kristi says. “I was finally going to have a home with a priesthood holder, and so I didn’t say anything. I’m the broken one, but it’s okay. I’m fine.”

Kristi shares that she took this belief with her into her marriage. “We had good times, but there were always times we struggled,” she says. “I blamed myself and my depression and eating disorder. ‘It’s me. I’m the reason we’re struggling.’”

Kristi explains that, over time, she and her husband were growing apart due to opposite work schedules and the demands of parenthood. She kept thinking there was something going on, but she didn’t know what it was.

I thought it was me, so I tried harder.

After fifteen years of marriage, Kristi says that she came home one day and her husband told her he wanted a divorce and that she needed to leave. Kristi shares that he refused her request for counseling and eventually served her divorce papers on the grounds that she was mentally ill.

Kristi shares that she internalized this false belief. During their painful and hard custody battle, a man her husband worked with came forward to inform Kristi about her husband’s infidelity. “Once he told me, things started coming together,” she says. The reality of the affair was really hard to face, but when Kristi looked back, things started to make sense. Soon, her husband’s pornography use came to light, as well.

 Kristi tells of her agony when she asked, “Where are you, God? You’re supposed to be protecting these babies.” She shares how she felt betrayed by her husband, and by God, and by this life she had worked so hard for. Kristi says she has major depression. And at this time she shares that she felt so alone.

I prayed, and it hit the ceiling and came back down.

Kristi explains that she stopped attending church because she felt if God wasn’t there for her, she wasn’t going to be there for Him.

Over the course of her marriage and divorce, she felt as though she had lost herself. She shares that before her divorce she had never made any adult decisions—she didn’t even have an opinion on her own life. However, over time, Kristi learned how to make decisions for herself and her children, with the help of great friends.  She shares she started to find strength.

I did a lot of healing.

But then, she developed cancer caused by a sexually transmitted disease from her ex-husband.  Kristi shares that she felt betrayed by her ex-husband, God, and her own body. “I felt like I was never going to be free.”

Three years ago, after surgery to treat her cancer, Kristi says she felt she needed to start over. She sold her home of eleven years and everything in it, and moved back to her hometown. She shares she began going to church again.

Becky shares that Kristi is such a faithful person. “You are the most faithful person,” Becky says. “You keep giving the Lord a chance. You keep trying. You don’t permanently turn your back on Him. You keep putting your hands out and saying, Lord, help thou my unbelief.”

Kristi explains that she wrestles a lot with her faith, but “I just can’t give up because if I give up, there’s nothing. So even though it feels like nothing a lot of the time, at least there’s a chance for something. And if I give up completely, there’s nothing.”

I can’t deny that the Lord has brought people into my life and that’s what I hold onto.

Last August, Kristi had her faith tested again when her cancer returned. Again, she asked, “Why am I having all these consequences for someone else’s actions?”.

Kristi shares how things turned around for her when she received a scholarship to attend the Heart of a Woman retreat in October 2019.  She says that she told God, “This is your last chance.”  She shares how just attending the retreat was a huge leap of faith because she hadn’t prayed in a long time.  The retreat was completely life-changing for Kristi. 

She shares that the first days of the retreat, she didn’t feel God, but then He showed up where she was at.   Kristi shares that God told her: “I have brought people into your life as a physical manifestation of my love.” According to Kristi, this message from God didn’t make it all okay. It didn’t make her healing journey complete, but she says it started her back on her path. 

“I needed to know that there was a path for me.”

Kristi shares that she always thought, “When I’m healed, I’m going to be completely different.” But now she understands that when she’s healed she’s going to be back to the person she was born as.  “I don’t have to be different or ‘complete’ to be healed,” she says.

She now knows there’s hope.

As Tiffany says, “Living without hope is not liveable. That little bit of hope keeps us moving.”  Kristi also shares that she recognizes her healing isn’t dependent on someone else fixing her or fixing the situation or taking accountability. She can still heal without that.

Kristi shares that the people who are surrounding her have been integral to her healing. “I feel very blessed from having so many people brought into my life,” she says.

Kristi shares that these friends seem to send texts, memes, and songs at the perfect time. They’ll pick her up and take her on an adventure. They accept her. They don’t push their faith or beliefs on her, allowing her to be where she’s at that day. They also give her tough love when she tells them that she can’t do it anymore. They tell her she did it yesterday and she can do it today.

Kristi’s Recovery Resources:

Not Giving Up on the Lord (even when you do, you come back)

Good Friends

Good Music

Heart of a Women Retreat

Kristi’s Song:

“It is Well” by Kristene DiMarco

Ep. 18- Q&A with Beckie Hennessy- Therapists and coaches, Full therapeutic disclosure, and Working with clergy

Becky and Tiffany sit down with Beckie Hennessy, Licensed Clinical Social Worker, to answer anonymous questions about betrayal trauma, submitted by listeners. Beckie has been a therapist since 2007 and owns her own practice, BRICKS Family Counseling . She lives in West Valley City, Utah with her husband of 16 years and their three kids. Beckie is an APSATS (Association of Partners of Sex Addicts Trauma Specialists) CCPS-C (Certified Clinical Partner Specialist Candidate) and is focused on providing partner-sensitive therapy and support.

Question #1:  “What is the difference between a therapist and a coach, and how do they function differently?”

Beckie is both a therapist and does some coaching.  She explains that therapists treat and coaches support. Therapists can deal with the past, present, and future, but coaches deal with the present and future. She believes one can absolutely have both a coach and a therapist--both can play a vital role in your healing process.

“I often refer my therapy clients to coaches,” Beckie says, explaining that they can fill in the gaps to offer more support than she might be able to give. For example, she only sees her clients once a week and doesn’t currently offer group therapy, so a coach could step in and supplement by giving more session time or running groups.

Beckie shares that, “the most important thing (in deciding which one to have) is your connection with your coach or therapist.” 

She believes it’s vital to ask therapists if they are licensed and if so, in which state. Vetting coaches is also important. “Ask coaches what kind of training or certification they have and what they specialize in,” she says.

She shares that if you ask the coach or therapist if they are trauma informed and partner sensitive and they don’t know what you mean, they’re probably not a good fit for you. Other ways to vet the therapist or coach are to interview them (through phone or email), listen to podcasts they may have been on, and do research online.

“If you’ve been betrayed, there is trauma. If you have an addiction, there is something that needs to be discovered from the past. While you can have a coach help support you in the entire process, at some juncture, you’re going to need a therapist to deal with healing from those wounds.”

Question #2: “What is full therapeutic disclosure?”

Beckie explains that a full therapeutic disclosure is a full history of the sexual behaviors and encounters given in a therapeutic setting. It is structured and is facilitated by a trained professional. It outlines the full extent of what has happened and the damage that may have been created. A full disclosure is factual and doesn’t have unnecessary details. “It gives you timeframes and references to what was going on,” Beckie shares. “Both the individual who has the addiction and the betrayed must prepare for it.”

She encourages partners interested in asking for a disclosure to research everything that’s available from Dan Drake, calling him the guru of therapeutic disclosures. 

Beckie clarifies that a disclosure doesn’t include emotions, excuses or perceptions. It’s not a situation for shame, blame, or gaslighting. It’s not an interrogation of the person disclosing. Rather, it is an opportunity for the couple to have a baseline of truth. “It gets it all out onto the table, which allows you to know what it is that you’re dealing with,” Beckie explains. “It allows for the partner who’s been betrayed to have consent. For instance, ‘do I want to go out of town and leave you alone with the kids, knowing what I know? Do I want to go to that swim party?’” 

“It doesn’t prevent slips or relapses,” Beckie adds. “It’s a baseline. Now we can start rebuilding. There’s everything in the past, now I know.”

Full, therapeutic disclosures help you know and begin to process the truth. Becky Ruff reminds us that “truth is something that is owed to everyone.” “You can work with truth,” Tiffany adds. 

The goal of disclosure is partner sensitive healing. “Disclosure is for the partner,” Beckie shares. “Yes, it’s important for the addict as well. But it’s for the partner to be able to make informed decisions.”

If the addict puts it all out there and the partner chooses to stay, that’s powerful for healing and for the relationship.

Question #3: “What do we do if clergy is not supportive? What if clergy tries to minimize what has happened or tries to push the partner to forgive early on?”

Beckie shares how we can choose how to respond to this situation. We can either “call out or call in” the clergy.

Beckie shares that calling out looks like this: “That was not okay. Period. The end.”  Then she says, “It’s when you say, ‘I don’t have the energy or mind space to go there with you and to educate you. But I’m going to let you know that what was said was not okay.’”  Becky Ruff shares that she has needed to do that and asks if it’s ok to “call out”.  Beckie explains that in these situations, you have permission to just call out and get out of there. You can say, “I disagree” and then walk away. This is for when your radar is going off and you don’t feel safe. 

In contrast, calling in looks like: educating clergy or connecting them to resources that can educate them. You can say things like, “With the information that you have, I can see how you would feel that way. Here’s what I’ve discovered. Or here’s what I’ve noticed for me. Or this is what’s made sense as I’ve visited with my therapist.”

Beckie urges that if you’re in an emotional space where you can call them in, then do it. But we get to decide if this is a call out or a call in.

“Clergy doesn’t know what they don’t know,” Beckie explains. “They didn’t train for this. A few clergy just dig in and don’t accept what you’re saying. If this happens, take care of yourself.”

Employing and enforcing strong boundaries applies to clergy, as well as all of the relationships in our lives. 

Beckie reminds us that it’s important to remember that the clergy’s reaction isn’t a reflection of how God feels—our relationships with God are direct.

Becky, Tiffany, and Beckie assert that it’s not our job to navigate whether or not someone else feels bad about something. It’s our job to know what we need.

Beckie Hennessy’s Recovery Resources:

Boundaries

Self-Care

Dan Drake’s resources on full therapeutic disclosures

Applying the “God Filter” to everything

“First Name Basis” Podcast

Beckie Hennessy’s Podcast: “Living Through”

Beckie Hennessy’s Song:

“Fix You” by Coldplay

Ep. 17- Amy P's Story

Becky and Autumn sit down with Amy P. to share her story. Married for twenty-eight years, Amy is a mother of six and has one grandchild and one on the way (as of podcast recording). She enjoys Pilates, canning, and gardening. Amy stages homes for realtors and has just completed real estate school.

Growing up, Amy shares she had a close connection to God. When she was five years old, her skull was crushed in an accident. She received a priesthood blessing in which she was commanded to live. Her first memory of her life was when she was in a hospital room, where she felt the love of both her Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother.

Although Amy had rebellious times as a teenager, when she asked God if he still loved her, she felt throughout her whole body that He did. This solidified her relationship with the Lord.

Amy and her husband met in high school and were married shortly after he returned home from his church mission. After five years of marriage, she shares she noticed he was slowly detaching from her. She had a strong feeling, like a lightning bolt, that he’d been looking at pornography. When she asked him if he had, he said, “Yes.” She says she asked him to go to the bishop and take care of it.

But the lies, denial, and gaslighting continued.

Amy shares that she was heartbroken. For the next few years, she and her husband were caught in a continuous, damaging cycle. During a trip to Hawaii, Amy says told him, “I’m not going to leave you.” She shares he felt he had enough safety to disclose all of his acting out behaviors to her that night.

After returning from their trip, Amy and her husband began attending the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ recovery program, the LifeStar therapy program, other counseling, and SALifeline 12-step programs. However, after about twenty-five years of marriage, Amy shares had reached her limits. 

I’d done the roller coaster ride too many times.

She shares that for all of her hard work to heal, her husband was white knuckling his recovery. “I said to him, ‘I’m on the freight train moving this way, and you’re back at the depot.’”

Amy says that there were many times where she thought she was surrendering her husband and detaching with love, but then she was still being an anxious detective—still reminding and making sure he engaged in recovery. While these are normal responses when experiencing betrayal trauma, Amy shares that she feels it’s not the partner’s job to be the addict’s police officer or mother.

Even though she loved her husband with her whole soul, Amy says she felt done—she didn’t have anything left to give him or support him with. This was the moment when she finally put his recovery back into his hands. Amy shares that she told him, “Good luck. This is between you and God.”

That was the moment when his true recovery began.

Amy says her husband began meditating, learning about mindfulness, and becoming transparent. And this, Amy feels, allowed her to begin trusting him a little.

Amy shares that her husband has been on a big faith journey that has been intensely spiritual. She says that it was moving him away from the church they had in common. As he became safer from sexual addiction, Amy shares that her trauma increased because she felt that she was losing him in a totally different way.

Conversely, Amy shares that she felt she could finally show her husband all of the emotions she’d been holding inside for twenty-five years. Previously, if she tried to share what she was feeling, he’d shut down due to his great feelings of shame. This would, in turn, shut her down. But Amy says she finally learned it was the right thing for the addict to feel pain and guilt, and for them to sit with it and work through it.

It’s important for addicts to see the agony within themselves and their loved ones.

During this time, Amy shares she was experiencing deep trauma every few days. She finally said to God:

“I need you to lead me to the next thing. Just tell me what comes next.”

Amy was soon led to the right counselor, who helped them stop doing the damaging dance they’d been engaged in for so long. Her husband learned what questions to ask her and how to sit in the pain her answers would bring.

Since then, Amy says she has learned that we all have Christ within us because we have divine within us.

“I can see the Christ within you. I can see the best parts of whomever I’m with. I choose to see the Christ within myself and the Christ within you.”

She has also discovered that our worth is set—all of life is experience.

Amy shares that through all of the hardships in her life, the darkest time came just a few months ago when they shared their story—as well as their son’s story of coming out—on a podcast. After that, they received some harsh pushback. Amy says didn’t expect it to hurt so bad to feel so judged. She says it took the basement floor out of the faith that had held her solid as a rock. For six months, she says she just tried to breathe. Her son’s response helped her when he said, “Mom, we just need to love them better. They don’t understand.”

“It’s just about love.”

Amy shares that healing began when her answer from God was to change some more, and that He wanted her to stand next to, support, and love her family.

Her mantra became: Accept Change.

Amy P’s Recovery Resources:

Personal Affirmations

Tapping

Self-Care

Boundaries

Compassionate Counseling (Jody)

Brene Brown Books

CHANGE

SURRENDER

STAY CURIOUS!

Amy P’s Song:

“Oceans (Where Feet May Fail)” by Elenyi

Ep. 16- Anonymous Q&A #2- Reasons vs Excuses, How to "Be There" for Loved One, & Favorite "Out-of-the-box" Resources

Becky, Autumn, and Tiffany sit down together to answer anonymous questions submitted by listeners about betrayal trauma.

Question #1:  “How do you make peace with your husband saying things like, ‘I went to porn because I had abandonment issues,’ knowing that we all have abandonment issues, too, as a result of the addiction?”

Becky shares how no matter what our behavior is, there’s a reason for it. However, if we use the reason as an excuse for the behavior, that’s a problem. There’s a reason we act the way we do, and sometimes it has to do with our childhood or our choices. But, we are still in charge of, and responsible for, our choices. 

Tiffany explains that: 

Making excuses is an unhealthy way to deal with what we’re dealing with.

We don’t get to excuse mistreating people because of trauma or past experiences that we’ve had.

Along these same lines, Becky describes how a lot of what happens to us is not our fault. But at some point, we all realize that we are responsible for our choices and our actions moving forward. If we use our history and our trauma as an excuse for bad behavior, that’s a sign that we’re not in good recovery.

Tiffany warns that statements like in the question above are red flags. She says, “The addict wants me to excuse the porn because they have an abandonment issue. But it’s a red flag when we feel confused and conflicted and wounded.” Then, how do we protect ourselves?

We get to pick a boundary.

We can say, “This is not my issue, this is not something I have to address with you. This does not give you permission to mistreat me.”

However, Autumn makes an important distinction when she describes how, in the beginning of recovery, often addicts are trying to figure out where this stemmed from. “That’s different from trying to make your spouse feel shame for what you did,” she says. So, sometimes the addict is not trying to make an excuse for it, they’re trying to share their story and explain things.

Autumn shares how, instead of continuing on in a discussion like this that’s harmful, we can set a boundary. We can say: “We take responsibility for our own actions, so I’d like to remind you that when we committed to working on this, you committed to take responsibility for your own actions, and that’s not taking responsibility for your own actions. So, my boundary is I’m not going to have a conversation at this time.”

Becky shares that as we’re working on our healing and working to change, we’re identifying these things that have a strong influence on who we are today. We’re going to work on this and we’re individually going to take responsibility for our own actions. 

It’s powerful to share our histories with one another, but it has to be done in a really healthy way.

Autumn explains that in the beginning of the healing journey, the addict and the spouse often engage in a drama triangle, with persecutor, victim, and rescuer. A lot of times we hop around these three things. The victim says, “I’m going to be the victim, so because this happened in my life, I get to act out.” The persecutor says, “No you don’t, I had this experience, so I get to be mad at you, how dare you!” Then the rescuer comes in saying, “It is fine, that is no problem, you can continue in your behavior.”

But Becky provides hope because when she describes how when you recognize where you are, whether you’re being the victim, persecutor, or rescuer, you can step away from those roles.

I have been wounded and there’s something I can do about it. I can have boundaries, I can have self-care.

Autumn shares how validation in those areas can help us move on from those roles. “You’re getting healthy when you can look at why you’re doing things and then stepping outside of it.”

Sometimes things happen to us, Becky says, and we are victims of hard and painful things. But it’s our job to make the choice to find healing, to fight for our healing, to fight for our safety. Tiffany and Becky remind us to try not to get discouraged. 

Healing is not linear. It’s messy. Be gentle with yourself. Apologize. And try again. Healing is the goal.

Question #2: “How are you able to be there for him for his hurt? I just can’t, and he isn’t in full recovery, and hasn’t fully owned it, and can’t see or understand my hurt.”

Autumn shares how validation is a huge piece of this. After her husband would come to her to disclose a slip, she would say, “Thank you for sharing that with me. Here is my boundary, we can’t do ‘XYZ’ for this amount of time.” 

Our spouses do have to disclose and own their actions.  And oftentimes, it’s hard to respond in a positive way. Tiffany reminds us that when we can’t, we can’t. In her marriage, “There had to be the disclosure, there had to be the boundary, but I could not hold his pain. I discovered that was not my job. I could not be the support person. I could give that away to someone else.” Autumn shares that: 

We aren’t our spouse’s support person.

Becky points out that our natural instinct is to want to support and help each other. But learning to surrender that support role is so hard. Eventually, we recognize that they have to choose, and we can’t carry this burden for them.

Tiffany shares that you can say, “I see that you’re hurting, I hope you get help with that.” We can feel goodwill towards our spouse, while also giving their recovery back to them. 

“I see you’re hurt. Here you go. I believe in you.”

Becky explains that she wished her husband well, and sometimes there is anger and things I do need to say. We are capable of handling it in a kind way, but, “For a long time, I couldn’t. I had a phrase that I would say in the nicest way possible, and he learned that this was the best I could do right then. Because there wasn’t a lot of sunshine and roses for a long time.”

Autumn says that getting to a space where you can get help is important. Saying, “This is where I stand. I can’t be married to someone who isn’t in recovery. This is what recovery looks like, so if you’re willing to go that way with me, then we can continue on. I understand you can’t disclose yet, but I give it back to you so you can own your part.”

Becky shares how:

Taking care of yourself and letting the addict learn to take care of himself is so empowering.

“That is where real healing comes,” Becky says. “The addict learns they can do this. It sucks and it hurts, but they learn that they can choose this.”

#3- Becky, Tiffany, and Autumn then finish out the podcast by sharing their favorite, non-traditional, out-of-the-box resources for healing from betrayal trauma.

Tiffany describes the eight week yoga therapy course she recently completed, and which she learned about from an earlier podcast interview with Sariah Hoffman. The sessions walk you through each of the different chakras, which are energy centers in our body where emotions can get stuck. It took something out of her and it was good. She loved it and realized that even though it was hard, it was a good kind of hard.

Another out-of-the-box resource for Tiffany has been hiking. “I did not expect the kind of strength and life that would come into me from hiking.” When she started her healing journey, she worked to get healing emotionally and mentally get her feet under her. More recently, she’s been working on healing her physical body.

Tiffany also shares that essential oils are a gift for healing for her. She shares that she feels they bring your senses together.

An out-of-the-box resource for Autumn has been Somatic Experiencing, which can be accessed through a certified therapist. It deals with your physical body and chakras and trapped emotions. It involves the acronym SCOPE, which stands for slow down, connect to your body, orient yourself, pendulate from the emotion that you’re feeling to your physical body, and then become engaged. She shares that “You carry your emotions in your physical body and they can hold you back. And your physical body can hold you back. I’ve healed my emotional and spiritual being, but there are physical things that have been held back because of emotion.”

Becky’s non-traditional healing resource is the Heart of a Woman Retreat. It helps her disconnect from the world for three days. “It centers around reconnecting with yourself and with the Lord.” There’s adventure as well as quiet time to talk about the hard stuff with the Lord. 

Another powerful resource for Becky is The Chosen, a video series about the Savior. “Getting to know my Savior on a deeper level has been so healing for me…

Becky feels that:

One day, we will be surprised at how familiar the Savior’s face is and how familiar He is to us.

Thank you for all your questions and comments. We know by asking and answering them, many others will be helping in their healing journey.

Please continue to send in your anonymous questions through Facebook, Instagram, the website, or email them to Becky@riseuprestored.com

Song chosen by Tiffany:

“Even if” by Mercy Me

Specific Recovery Resources Shared Today:

Boundaries

Self-care

Yoga Therapy

Hiking

Essential Oils

Somatic Experiencing

“Heart of a Woman” Retreat

“The Chosen” video series 

Ep. 15- Amy R's Story

Becky and Kristy sit down with Amy R. to share her story. A mother of five, Amy discusses how she was raised in a Christ-centered family in Sandy, Utah. She met her husband while serving a mission for their church in Hungary. 

Amy shares that two-and-a-half years ago, when they had been married about eighteen years, she discovered pornography on an old ipad. When Amy confronted her husband, he didn’t deny that he had a problem. He shared with her he had struggled with pornography since he was ten years old. 

Amy was shocked. She had never suspected anything was amiss and didn’t believe it at first. She shares it was so disorienting. In the first few weeks after discovery, there were many more layers of disclosure, each more painful than the last.

Amy says she had felt that they had a strong, healthy marriage. Her husband was so good at compartmentalization, that there had been very few red flags indicating something was wrong. She shares she had known that her husband had suffered from emotional mismanagement, but it had never occurred to her that it was because of pornography use.

I experienced many betrayal trauma symptoms

Brain fog, sleep disturbances, and changes in how she viewed those around her were just some of the things Amy experienced during this time. Her husband’s issues were also very public knowledge in their community, which added another layer of pain. She shares she had a lot of anger and moments she wanted to “bash the doors in.”

But Amy and her husband jumped right into recovery, enrolling in a therapy program that specializes in unwanted pornography use and sex addiction, LifeStar, within six weeks of discovery. Amy was also open with her children, in age appropriate ways, about what was going on. Because their story was public knowledge, she was also open with members of their community.

My family was “The Team” and we were in this together

Although Amy and her husband sought help right away, there were still many painful moments, she shares. For instance, she remembers looking through photo books and placing their happy family moments within the timeline of what she now knew was her husband’s moments of acting out. Amy says this was very triggering to her. However, over time and through a lot of healing, she was able to find joy in looking through family photos again.

Don’t let his past and his addictions ruin your past. Your past was real to you. 

Often, those experiencing betrayal trauma tell themselves they can’t cherish their memories because their husband wasn’t worthy or honest during those times. But Amy shares that she believes we can choose to cherish them and can, through time and healing, look back and see the joy that was there.

Through therapy, Amy shares that she learned everyone’s story is unique. She believes in recovery for all kinds of people. She went from despising addicts to truly feeling love for them and seeing the Spirit of Christ in them.

Self-care, especially through running and hiking with friends has been essential for Amy’s healing. Although she’s also been educated and uplifted by therapy and by listening to podcasts, it’s the feeling of connection that has been the most help, she shares. 

Over time, Amy says she realized that having connections with people is also so important. She shares how she discovered that not everyone you share your story with has the ability to react with empathy. But it’s still important to search for those who can help.

Amy says that even more important than connections with those around her, though, is her connection with God.

The atonement of Jesus Christ isn’t just about repentance, it’s about healing.

Amy says she is working on her relationship with God. Although she’s not sure why He didn’t tell her clearly what was going on in her marriage, and it’s painful that she went all those years not knowing, she shares that she’s found restoration through Christ. This has come by understanding that the key to healing is having a belief in redemption, in the knowledge that God can redeem us.

Every single one of us can be redeemed from whatever pain we have. He wants to redeem us and get us out of that pain.

Amy R’s Recovery Resources:

Atonement of Jesus Christ

Running and hiking with friends

Connecting with your people

Music

Self-care

Book- “What Can I Do About Me” by Rhyll Croshaw

LifeStar Salt Lake

12 Step Groups- LDS church program and SALifeline

“Eternal Warriors” program by the WORTH Group

Podcasts

Amy R’s Song:

“Cleanse You” by Calee Reed

Ep. 14- Yoga and Healing with Sariah Hoffman, Yoga Therapist

Becky and Tiffany sit down with Sariah Hoffman, a yoga therapist and founder of Backpocket Yoga in Lehi, Utah. She has been teaching yoga for fourteen years and practicing as a yoga therapist for six years. She is the creator of an eight-week yoga therapy program that has helped hundreds of people find themselves after betrayal trauma. Sariah is also the author of the book Beyond Breath. Having gone through betrayal trauma herself, Sariah has used the tools found in her program to find love—love for herself, which has then brought love into her life on all levels.

 Sariah experienced betrayal trauma during her first marriage. She discovered that she was believing her husband more than she was believing herself. She practiced yoga during this time, but due to the betrayal trauma she was experiencing, Sariah wasn’t emotionally present during her thousand hours of yoga teacher training. 

My spirit was dying. My spirit was speaking to me through my body, but I wasn’t listening.

Engaging in talk therapy was a turning point for Sariah, as was learning to say “no.”  Taking care of her body, going to the temple, and praying constantly for discernment also helped.  Slowly, she started seeing herself. So, when her husband told her she was crazy and making things up, Sariah was able to ground herself. She knew if she could feel the ground and could breathe, her heart would slow down and then she could focus and see things clearly.

After her divorce, Sariah did the thousand hours of yoga therapist training again and then added more hours, as well, to become certified.

Sariah shares that yoga is the cessation of the fluctuation of the mind. It’s the ceasing of the chaos in your mind. Yoga is not just the postures (asanas) and the breath work.  It is the way that you live your life. 

You are sacred.

Many people think they can’t do yoga because they aren’t flexible, Sariah says. But any type of body can do yoga. It doesn’t have to be a tough workout.

In the first movement week of her eight-week yoga therapy program, Sariah’s students learn: “I have a right to be here.” They focus on learning to be present in their body, so they can let their body soften and then breathe.

If you change your body, you change your breathing, and then you change your life.

Another misconception about yoga is that it’s a religion. But it’s not. Sariah explains that it actually helps anyone become more firm in their religion, whatever it is. Moving with God, walking with God, is called “yama.” Sariah feels that, 

“If I can be with myself, I can be with God always.”

Sariah also explains that our breath is not ours, it’s God’s. He’s lending it to us, so we need to take care of it. “Your breath doesn’t lie. It’s the ‘trying’ to breathe, powering through it, that gets us stuck.” Sariah shares that the irony is, we have to let go of our breath to be able to breathe in and let God take over. When this happens, we have more clarity and our words can come from a grounded place. 

Sariah shares that yoga is becoming more prevalent in the therapeutic world because the connection to the body is so important. 

Your body holds onto everything.

Therapeutic yoga addresses the emotional backpack that we carry around, Sariah says. Anything that we do not feel lives in the fascia of the body. Every unfelt emotion sits in the fascia and it becomes very tight. Sariah explains that that’s why some yoga postures make you cry, because you’re releasing that fascia.

Sariah shares that another aspect of healing from betrayal trauma that is key is learning about boundaries. All too often, we base our recovery on our husband’s recovery. We still want to be in control. However, yoga teaches you how to learn how to change the dance. 

Recovery is discovery.

Healthy, strong boundaries tell you that you have to get yourself to safety, Sariah says. You have to be the one to hold that power, you can’t give the power over your safety to others.  She shares that when you feel unsafe, it’s your responsibility to get yourself safe, whatever that looks like. It takes time to learn to trust yourself again after you’ve experienced betrayal trauma, shares Sariah. Learning to trust yourself again helps you recognize the signs that you feel unsafe. Setting boundaries and achieving safety for ourselves changes the dance.

When I feel safe, I can make mistakes and it’s okay.

Sariah shares that another crucial aspect of recovery is learning about the triggers we experience in day-to-day life. Triggers occur even when we really are in a place of safety; they’re reminders and they are going to happen. However, Sariah shares, our triggers are not our partner’s job. Even if he’s the one who did these things to cause the pain and the triggers, our triggers are not his.

When we can check in with ourselves, we realize we just need to get ourselves to safety for a minute. Sariah says, “When we leave it up to someone else to not trigger us, it’s as if we have trigger goggles on, and we’re just looking for triggers.”

Sariah shares that the bottom line is, when our partners aren’t in a healthy place, they may be doing things to harm themselves, but they are still sacred. They’re not holding themselves sacred, but they are still sacred. 

You don’t have to wait for him to do the work to start holding yourself sacred.

Sariah’s yoga studio, Back Pocket Yoga, provides “emotional fitness.” She feels that talk therapy helped her, but she found herself stuck in the same place over and over again. When she utilized yoga and got in her body, that’s when the big changes happened.

Sariah’s Recovery Resources:

www.backpocketyogastudios.com

The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel Van Der Kolk, M.D.

Beyond Breath by Sariah C. Bastian (Sariah Hoffman)

Sariah’s Song: 

“In Dreams” by Jai-Jagdeesh

Ep. 13- Abby's Story

Becky and Tiffany sit down with Abby to share her story. Abby was born and raised in Fairview, Utah. Growing up, she felt her parents had a “fairy tale” marriage because she never witnessed any fighting or arguments. She felt that she would someday marry a returned missionary in the temple, and then she would get to have that “fairy tale” life, as well, and that everything would be “bubbles and roses.” 

Her relationship with God growing up was a bit distant. She knew he was a wonderful being who had given her so many blessings, but because He’d given her so much, she felt she couldn’t ask him for anything more.

She met her husband when they were both on ballroom dance teams at Utah Valley University. Before they got married, he opened up about his pornography addiction. When she prayed about whether or not to marry him, she received the direct prompting that she should continue with the relationship and that the Lord would let her know if she needed to end things down the road.

It did not take long for her husband’s problems with pornography to affect their brand-new marriage. Within just a couple of weeks, he engaged in a days-long gaming binge, leaving her feeling completely disconnected from him. Later she began connecting the dots between his gaming binges with his acting out with porn, realizing they coincided.

It was the complete disconnection from my husband that was so painful.

She soon began distracting herself from her painful marriage by throwing herself into motherhood. The problem was, things with her husband were so troublesome that she didn’t feel like she could be completely present with her child, either. And her husband’s pornography addiction kept getting worse.

On their fourth anniversary, they drove several hours to attend therapy. Her husband had recently disclosed a months-long acting out with pornography and she threw up a wall of anger. However, she was hesitant to allow herself to feel that anger towards him. She knew she was hurt, but she thought acknowledging that anger wasn’t what she was supposed to do. She didn’t understand why her husband couldn’t just stop looking at pornography.

Abby and her husband began going to twelve-step meetings, but they weren’t the right fit for Abby, and her husband was only attending them to go through the motions. Her relationship with the Lord at that time was mostly “non-existent.” 

I felt more betrayed by God than by my spouse.

She kept feeling like she needed to stay in the marriage, but she didn’t want to and felt resentful to the Lord for asking that of her. She thought, “If the Lord’s going to play me like that, then everyone’s going to play me like that.” Out of fear and in a desire to protect herself, she cut herself off from the Lord. She cut herself off from everyone, including herself. She was disconnected from her own feelings and needs.

Around this time, she and her husband began attending separate group therapies. Her husband loved the groups because of the connections he gained. However, there were parts of it that didn’t work well for Abby because of all of the highly charged emotions flying around the room. She did, however, make lasting friendships with some of the wives in the group. 

After this group work, she began striving to focus on her own healing. She realized she actually was angry at her husband, that all those times she thought she was merely feeling hurt, was actually a feeling of apathy.

I had to first pull the apathy down to uncover the anger underneath.

Abby and her husband went to a Three Key Elements class because she told him if they didn’t, she would divorce him. Even though the classes weren’t based on treating addiction, they were very helpful. Soon, from taking these classes, something switched in her husband. He realized he could lead their family, he could take care of his own stuff. She let h

At that time, her relationship with God was still very strained. She still didn’t trust God. It took having her third child for her to begin to trust the Lord. When she was pregnant with him, she had a strong and clear impression from the Lord:

This child is coming with medical difficulties.

God also told her, “This child will come with lessons that you and your family need. He will be your bright spot and the hardest thing you’ll ever do in this life.” 

She began gaining trust in God when time and time again, various doctors told them there was nothing wrong. But the spirit whispered that there was. After many long months of worry, x-rays, procedures, and genetic testing, they finally learned his diagnosis. But there still weren’t clear answers on a treatment plan for him. 

She’s learned there are many parallels between her journey with her husband’s addiction and with their son’s medical problems. There’s lots of difficulty and very few answers. But when she could visualize handing her baby over to the Savior when she was handing him off to the medical personnel, she felt peace.

Abby realized that was what she had to do with her husband. She can’t carry her husband or his addictions and she can’t make his decisions. 

But I can walk by my husband’s side and turn him over to the Savior when it gets really hard.

Her relationship with the Lord has improved because she can now ask Him for things. She engages in a personalized process when she’s triggered or when things feel hard. This process involves listening to various playlists according to her mood, using journaling and physical activity and writing out what she’s thankful for. All of this is bookended with taking it to the Lord, when she says:

I’ve worked through this on my end. What do I need to learn now, what do I need to do, and who can I serve with this?

Abby’s Recovery Resources:

Journaling

Music

Movement

Taking everything to the Lord

Taking things to the Lord again to see what gifts He has for me

LifeStar Therapy- a good start.  Learned so much!

3 Key Elements- Helped us work together again.

Abby’s Song: 

The Sound of Surviving by Nichole Nordeman

Ep. 12- Katy's Story

Becky and Tiffany sit down with Katy as she shares her journey of healing.  Katy grew up in Southeast Idaho and now lives in northern Utah.  She and her husband, Mark, have been married 15 ½ yrs. and have 4 kids.  She spends most of time as homeschool mama.  Katy also teaches yoga and works to support brain wellness in healing.  She calls herself a bookworm and loves to learn.  She shares that she loves finding truth in many places.  Katy’s especially loves spending time with kids hiking, jumping on the trampoline, and playing board games.

Talking about her relationship with God growing up, Katy is grateful for parents who gave her the best spiritual foundation they knew how.  Her home was full of very regular faith-based practices.  Even after her parent’s divorced, they attended church each Sunday and had early morning scripture study.  Katy shares that organized religion was a steady place in her life.  She shares that she experienced the peaceful calm through carving out that time with God.  She did feel her relationship with God was one-sided and didn’t know how to receive personal revelation at that time but did have some answers to prayer.

Katy shares that the first “D-day” (discovery day) came during her engagement to Mark when they were sharing and discussing their journals.  She was prompted to ask more questions.  She says that Mark was honest and shared that he had been looking at pornography since he was 10 yrs old.  Katy shares she felt her stomach drop and turn inside out and that she didn’t sleep well that night.  As the dawn broke, she felt peace come and she knew the Lord had told her Mark was still a good choice for her.  She shares that the only thing that had changed was that she knew more about his past.  The next day, Katy came asked what questions she could, and Mark was open and answered the best he could.  She shares that neither of them knew the difference between sobriety and recovery and they didn’t seek out support or help.  

They continued forward and got married as they both thought, “Cool.  Addiction is in the past”.

Early in marriage, life was quiet and they were blessed with Mark having a good job and he maintained his sobriety.  They had 3 children in 3 years, with 2 extra-difficult pregnancies.  During that time, Katy was on bedrest and she shares that Mark was working all day and came home to take care of her, the children, and the house so that she could rest and take care of herself.  She shares that  

Mark gave so much for these children to be brought into the world.

Suddenly Mark lost his job and with all of the pressure and anxiety and stress of everything, he turned to what he had learned to cope with it.  Within a few months, his health started to suffer.  Doctors couldn’t find anything wrong but Katy shares that she knew something was wrong.  Eventually, this turned into struggles with his mental health, intense anxiety, depression, and suicidal thoughts.  Katy shares that she kept dragging him to medical appointments, but he was not actively trying to get help for himself.  She says she was trying to do it all for him.  She shares that because she did not understand the power of Jesus Christ, she was trying to be that savior for him.  And it was not until they almost lost everything that she realized 

Oh!  I can’t fix this!  I don’t have that power.

Katy and Becky discuss how important attachment is in relationships and how we are all taught to fight for our marriages and relationships.  Because we love our spouses, we try to do all that we can to protect that attachment.  Becky encourages us to look back gently on our younger selves and say, “We were doing the best we know how”.  

Katy shares that she found out she was pregnant and was shocked.  She says she wasn’t ready to bring a baby into the situation.  At their first appointment, there was no heartbeat found and a D&C was scheduled.  Katy shares that she felt both relief and sadness.  That night Mark pressured her into letting him give her a blessing even though she was not comfortable with it.  In this blessing, he emotionally “beat her up” and called her to “repent and do better”.  Then he promised her that IF she had enough faith, “the baby would be just fine”.  Katy shares that she didn’t sleep that night, repented for not being a good wife, and prayed because she didn’t want to be the reason that there wasn’t a miracle (even though it was found out after the procedure that the pregnancy was a molar pregnancy and was never a baby).  Katy shares that this caused so much pain and wounding because of her deep connection and desire to follow God, she believed the blessing was God talking to her, when in fact, her husband was not in a place to be giving that blessing.  She shares that she has since had to untangle all of this with her relationship with God.

            The day of the procedure, Katy shares that the nurses and doctor were so kind and helped her but also clear that this baby was no longer there and there was nothing more to do.  They helped to make sure she took care of herself.  As the procedure was ready to begin, Mark began aggressively insisting he needed to leave and to wait for him to return.  Then he left.  Katy shares that in that moment she realized

Oh my gosh!  Maybe we’re not really ok.

The nurses looked at me with shock and almost pity.

Katy says that their reaction showed her that maybe things weren’t ok or normal.  After waiting and waiting, Mark did not come back.  Katy told the staff to just continue so they could move on with their work.  She shares that  

The nurse held my hand during the procedure, and then they dimmed the lights and let me sleep because I had no ride home. - She was all alone.

Katy shares that Mark finally came back and took her home and she slept the rest of the night.  As soon as she woke up, Mark was in her face and angry and she pled with him to reach out to his psychiatrist.  He left and brought her mother back.  At that moment, Katy shares she was not ready to share with someone in her life, so she felt some relief, but it was very hard because it wasn’t her choice to share.

A few days later, Mark wanted to go away for a work conference, but Katy begged him not to go but he went anyway.  She found out later that Mark was using this time away for work as a cover-up to go and find anyone he could to have sex with.  Even though he didn’t achieve that goal that weekend, he spent the whole weekend “prowling”.  Katy shares that 

She did not recognize that man at all.

She says they stayed in that dark place for about 6 months.  Multiple times a week he would call and say he couldn’t come home because he was too anxious.  Katy shares that, even though she didn’t know it, she started the beginnings of boundaries with her husband.  When he would call and say he wasn’t coming home, she developed a mental script to say: “I want you to come home. I think you should come home tonight.  And you need to decide for yourself”.   Mark was spending more and more nights at his parent’s and family’s homes.  One night, Katy begged him to stay home and he turned the table and began telling her she was controlling and saying, “You are not my boss”.  Katy shares 

She crumbled to the floor and sobbed.

Becky paused and asked Katy what she thought her husband was doing all this time and she shares that she believed him when he said he was going to his parent’s house.  She shares that she feels naïve, but Becky reminds us all that 

There is nothing wrong with being trusting.  It is his fault for deceiving you.

You were doing the best you could with the knowledge that you had.

Katy shares that she remembers a conversation early in their marriage when she asked Mark how she would know if he was doing these things again.  He told her “Katy, you will know.  There will be such a distinct shift in who I am.  There is no way you could miss it”.  She knew, even if it was on an unconscious level and she says that after a lot of gaslighting by her husband and learning not to trust herself, she didn’t listen to her instincts about what was going on anymore.  The next day Mark called and said he wanted to tell her where he went the night before.  

He went to a strip club.  

Katy shares that she couldn’t breathe, and her stomach dropped.  She dropped to the couch, with 3 small children playing in front of her.  She shares that the moment just froze, and the world was going on around her, but she wasn’t.   She says she doesn’t remember the rest of the conversation.  

But she remembers her first reaction was RELIEF!

ALL of the things that were happening suddenly made sense.  The relief was a split second and then there was a massive jumbled up ball of anger, fear, and pain and overwhelm.  Katy shares that because of her previous experiences, within a few days, she shoved all those feelings away.  It was a protection because she would not have been able to handle it all right then.  Tiffany shares that it is good to look and see what places inside ourselves that need protecting right now and are not quite ready to thaw.  Having self-compassion and relying on the Lord’s timing is important.

Katy shares that the emotional abuse continued from Mark and that he even began she was emotionally abusive, with others around him backing him.  One day at church, the thought came to Katy, “Oh!  Maybe I can’t fix this”.  As she journaled, she wrote: I can’t do this, and I think God can. And I think Jesus Christ has something to do with it.  Katy learned came to the conclusion that “I can’t, He can, and I will let Him’.

Jesus Christ doesn’t just have something to do with it.  He has EVERYTHING to do with it.

It was still months before Mark hit his rock bottom.  And there were darker times, but she walked with the illumination she had inside through it.  Katy shares that the darkness was not sucking the light out of her like it had been before.  She says that recognizing the Lord is the ultimate source of Light that would not be darkened made all the difference.

Mark left a second time and told Katy to “Get a lawyer.  I am done”.  She shares they had been to 4 different marriage therapists; he wouldn’t get sober, he was refusing to take him medication, he wouldn’t stay, and she was left with 3 small children.  She says that marriage is made up of two parties and if both parties are not willing to walk that road of healing, there will be an impasse.  At the same time, Katy never felt like she was being led to divorce.  She shares it didn’t feel like it was the right thing, but she didn’t know what else to do.  With an appointment with a divorce attorney on Monday, Katy met with her bishop about divorce on Sunday.  Katy shares that this experience was hard and not the answer for everyone, but it was the answer she sees that she needed.  The bishop felt strongly like he could not give her his blessing for divorce.  He didn’t know what to do, but he counseled her to go home and “figure it out”.  Katy says that is not the right thing for everyone, but it was the right thing for her and her situation.  As soon as the bishop said that, she felt complete peace.  She knew it was the right answer for her, because divorce never felt right.

Katy sharers she felt prompted to call Mark even though he had said not to contact him at all.  Mark told her later that second separation was rock bottom and he thought it was too late to save his marriage.  And then Katy texted him to talk.  They talked all night and it was the first time in a long time to have a full conversation.  By the end of the conversation they knew they were both willing to fight for this marriage.  To do whatever it took to salvage it.  It wasn’t all better.  But it was a start.  Katy shares that they began searching for resources and found the 12-step program through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, LifeStar therapy program, and a therapist that finally understood them.

These resources were last resorts for us.

Now we can share these resources as FIRST resorts with others.

Katy shares that finding experts and specialists in sex addiction and betrayal trauma made all the difference for them.

Let’s spare the secondary trauma and find good resources.

Katy shares that yoga has been a really important in her healing journey.  She started moving nightly to a yoga dvd.  She didn’t know much about yoga or why it helped but she did know that every night she felt better and better after she finished yoga.   Today, Katy has had a daily yoga practice for 8 years.  Katy shares the importance of body movement in healing the trauma that gets trapped in the body.  Katy shares her love and passion for yoga with others, for adults and children, addicts and spouses and their children.  She also brings her Christian faith into the work as well.  

Katy testifies that Jesus Christ has the power, as we allow Him, to take all these ugly things, betrayal trauma and other life experiences, and get us back on our feet.  But allow those experiences to shape us into a breathtakingly more beautiful person because of what we have been through.

There is grace available for betrayal trauma because Jesus Christ descended below molar pregnancies, horrible phone calls, suicide, mental health, and more.  He covered all of that.  And then he ascended above everything, so he will take us with him and bring us back to God.

Betrayal trauma absolutely has been the miracle that has rescued me.

Kat'y’s Recovery Resources:

Jesus Christ (His grace has become my constant power source)

Yoga

12-Step Groups including Healing Through Christ, ARP, SALifeline

EMDR

QNRT

Neurofeedback

LifeStar Program

Self-care specific to her unique body, mind and spirit

Katy’s Song:

The Miracle by Shauna Belt Edwards (sung by Katy)

Ep. 11- Jeni's Story

Becky and Autumn sit down with Jeni to share her story. Jeni grew up in Weatherford, Texas and is the oldest of ten children. She has six children and has been married for twenty years. She does voiceover work, and especially enjoys children’s book narration. 

Growing up, Jeni’s family was wonderful, but they didn’t really understand how to regulate their emotions. She realizes this is a common thing for that generation, but desires to be a “chain breaker.” She wants a better way for herself and her family, recently telling her son: “We’re changing this. It’s okay to show your emotions.”

Jeni’s journey with betrayal started soon after the wedding. Nine months after marrying her husband, Jeni found open emails that indicated he’d been involved in things that weren’t appropriate. She told him, “I love you. I forgive you. Go talk to the bishop and don’t ever do it again.”

I was expecting a quick fix.

But things were not at all resolved at that time. From then until seventeen and a half years into the marriage, things were hell. She continued to find pornography. She explains how she often didn’t even exactly know what the problem in her marriage was, just that she felt isolated and alone. Whenever she found something, she and her husband would go to the bishop. Their bishops were very good men, but they didn’t have knowledge or training on what to do.

Each time, their bishops’ inadequate and uninformed responses to her husband’s acting out, financial abuse, and anger issues led Jeni to spiral into despair and panic.

Jeni explains that even though things were incredibly difficult, she found solace in turning to the Lord. Finally, during one especially heartfelt prayer, she told Heavenly Father that she would do anything, whatever it took, to heal her marriage. Handing her will over to God allowed her to feel a distinct prompting.

The Lord said, “Help is now on its way. I will heal you in community.”

With a newfound feeling of hope, her relationship with God expanded. She spent hours on her knees during this time, and the Lord comforted her. “He helped me be patient. He told me we didn’t need to reinvent the wheel, as far as therapy went.”

Jeni and her husband became involved in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint’s Addiction Recovery Program (ARP) and a therapy program called Lifestar.

We had both Lifestar and ARP to help us with both the therapy side and the spiritual side.

It wasn’t until many years of this, and after her husband had given her a full disclosure, that she realized, “This is addiction.”

Even though the couple began addiction recovery in 2017, Jeni shares how there were many moments during this time where she felt this would just be her lot in life, and that nothing would change. She believed in her marriage covenant, so she felt trapped. 

But I realized that God doesn’t want us to be treated poorly. God himself uses boundaries.

It was boundaries that made the biggest shift in her life. Jeni says, “Boundaries can be such a foreign concept, but they let you know where one person ends and where the other begins. Without boundaries, you end up feeling like a doormat.” 

At one point, she felt extremely low. She was in public, so she said a prayer in her heart. Immediately, she began to think of things about herself that she had lost. She was reminded by God that those things were important to her and therefore, they were important to God. He loved her exactly the way she was.

It was then that she started to feel of her own worth. She started to feel that she was worth setting boundaries for. 

Jeni has been on this healing journey for herself for two-and-a-half years—which she feels is not long considering her husband has had a thirty-year addiction. She felt so alone for so long, and unfortunately, hasn’t found a lot of the kind of support she’s needed from family. 

A lot of times, you get support up front, but then it fades. They’re nervous about hurting you, so they don’t talk about it.

With betrayal trauma, it’s that sense of loneliness that is especially painful. A lot of Jeni’s trauma stems from feeling isolated. “I wasn’t isolated from God, but I was isolated from people.”

Earthly angels have provided the support she’s so desperately needed. She’s met many people in her journey that have helped her feel loved and validated. 

She’s also realized that although service is powerful and can be part of the healing process, it’s like the oxygen masks on the airplane: we have to put our own masks on first. We have to take care of ourselves first to then be able to serve others. She knows it’s also important to take the time to rest. She loves Psalm 46:10: 

Be still, and know that I am God.

Jeni reminds us that if we go too crazy and get too busy, we can’t be still. If we’re not still, we can’t hear the Lord very well. She’s found the greatest joy through worshipping her God during the hard times.

When asked how she found restoration through Christ, Jeni replies, “I’m still on that journey. But recently I prayed and asked God: ‘Am I always going to feel this trauma? Am I always going to be hijacked?’ Instantly, I felt the answer, ‘no.’

He’s done all these big miracles, so He can also heal me.

Jeni’s Recovery Resources:

Boundaries

Addiction Recovery Program (ARP) for Loved Ones- the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

LifeStar Program

Book: Treating Trauma from Sexual Betrayal by Dr. Kevin Skinner

Book: Intimate Deception by Dr. Sheri Keffer

Trauma Inventory for Partners of Sex Addicts (TIPSA.Vs) Survey

Jeni’s Podcast: Betrayal Trauma SOS

Jeni’s Song: 

“So Will I” by Hillsong UNITED

Ep. 10- Roxanne's Story

Becky and Tiffany sit down with Roxanne to share her story. Roxanne was born in Pleasanton, California. She grew up in a devout Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint home. She says her testimony was always there, but she learned in high school that she needed to work on it to help it grow.

She attended Ricks College in Rexburg, Idaho. In her third year there, she met her husband. When they were first married, she felt they had the best relationship. “I thought we were it. We didn’t struggle that first year like other people did.” She never considered he might have a problem with pornography.

Six months into the marriage, she discovered that her husband was using porn. It was devastating. Something happened inside of her at that moment, and she never could trust him again. They spoke with their bishop, who gave them church answers (scriptures, prayer, Family Home Evening, doing good things, etc.). Roxanne eventually found that although these things are helpful and important, unless a person really wants to stop, they’re not the answer for addressing pornography.

I was angry, stressed, and cried a lot.

Over the years, she continued to find pornography in the home. Yet, her husband was not forthcoming about what he was doing. She had great fear about what was happening inside her home, and often felt confused. She doubted herself a lot. But little by little, she gave these trials to the Lord through much prayer. Over time, it became easier to trust her intuition.

Having God on your side is a powerful foundation.

In February 2012, with a newfound sense of peace and calm, Roxanne told her husband she was no longer going to accept his excuses. She knew that he was, yet again, using porn and lying about it. This time, when they went to the bishop, he told them that her husband needed to do the 12-step program for four years because it takes three to five years to heal from addiction.

For a year and a half, they faithfully attended their weekly 12-step meetings--his were for addicts, hers were for betrayed wives. She felt they thrived in those meetings.

However, in 2013, things between them seemed to be getting worse. He again denied using porn.

That’s when God told me, “He’s not being honest with you.” 

Roxanne received this clear answer because she was building her relationship with Christ. She was praying all the time--constantly. She asked God, “What am I supposed to do today?” Learning to turn her life over to whatever it was, she was understanding how to be strong.

Finding his lost office key was the catalyst to her understanding just how bad things had gotten for her husband. She saw from his internet history on his work computer that he was sinking deeper into frightening levels of pornography. Deciding she would no longer do this by herself, she spoke for the first time with both his family and her family about his addiction. She also confronted him, and after attempting to manipulate and deceive, he broke down. It was a typical response for him: “He says he’s not. I find out anyway. He can no longer deny it, he cries, and then he says he’ll do better.”

They did another year of 12-step, and this time, they added counseling to help them. But soon, things were at an all-time low, with his mistreatment of her a clear red-flag that he’d relapsed.

She called in a prayer intervention to both families.

When confronted with his lies, he backpedaled, saying he wanted a divorce. But Roxanne allowed her faith to guide her every step, feeling she should wait and not engage or speak with him at that time. She even received a text from her brother:

Don’t worry. Angels are on their way.

Her husband chose to fight his addiction once again, this time entering a ninety-day, in-patient treatment program for sex addicts. Afterwards, Roxanne gave him one more year to work his recovery. They even moved so he could focus on this one thing: healing.

In one particularly difficult moment, and in agony over her husband’s continued choice to be dishonest, she saw his neckties. She felt angry that they hung there, organized and faking perfection--like her husband was doing. She cut them up with scissors, and then crumpled to the floor in despair.

Heavenly Father gets that we don’t always see the whole picture, and He’s okay with us being angry.

She had many moments when she allowed herself to process through the anger. She would go on drives to yell it out with God. It was only after the driving and yelling that she could hear Him. 

We can’t bring anything in if we’re already full; it’s all got to come out, and then we can receive.

 Nearly a year later, Roxanne knew in her heart that it was time to divorce. Sobriety and recovery are two very different things, and her husband might have been choosing the former, but not the latter. That’s when the spirit whispered, “you’re done.”

There have been twists and turns since the divorce, all of them acting as a bridge to her understanding and growth. She wrote a book about her experiences, and last year, she remarried. Roxanne and her husband are “choosing in,” meaning that they are willing to do the work it takes to build a healthy, happy life.

When asked about how Christ has restored her, Roxanne is quick to explain:

 Even though I have these wounds, Christ has made up the difference. Like Job, I’ve been given more than what was taken.

Rooxanne’s Recovery Resources:

12- Step Group

Prayers (including driving and yelling it out with God)

Free Women’s Group from WORTH

Book: Cutting Ties by Roxanne Kennedy Granata

Roxanne’s Podcast: Choose In

Roxanne’s Song:

“Tell Your Heart to Beat Again” by Daniel Gokey